I'm not an "x on the driver's license" nonbinary.
I'm a "remove gender from any documentation that doesn't need it" nonbinary.

I'm not a "let us into the military" trans, i'm a "defund the military and give me some fucking healthcare" trans.

@Moss I'm really skeptical about the x on the driver's license thing because like uhh that just seems like it would be more dangerous and then the state has a record of you

Like it makes sense for people who have transitioned to where they "pass" as a binary gender to some extent to get their marker changed because it seems like it would make you stand out less and be more safe

But to have an X seems like a really bad idea because it will always stand out

@RadiantEmber @Moss

yeah, the whole concept sounds like it was proposed by a cis liberal in california, honestly

@baronnarcveldt @RadiantEmber @Moss it's a pretty good example of the liberal mindset of "we have to work inside the system, we can't just change it."

@InternetEh @RadiantEmber @Moss

well, and inexperience. i made my point because i was all about x on the license like 3 years ago when i was new to the whole thing. and at that point i would only have had the perspective of a cis liberal lol

@baronnarcveldt @InternetEh @RadiantEmber @Moss It sounds like a great idea, until you find out that people are incredibly enby/trans/homophobic and having a marker is like putting a target, especially on something like a driving license where you're probably already in trouble, and anything against you in the subconcious of the cop dealing with you is you fucked.

@MxCraven @baronnarcveldt @InternetEh @RadiantEmber @Moss I mean the people who see my driver's license the most aren't cops but queer bartenders so.

@hope @MxCraven @baronnarcveldt @InternetEh @RadiantEmber @Moss

This ^

Like of course the push should have been to remove gender markers from licenses from the get

But in the meantime if I have to be gendered on a document I have to look at somewhat regularly at least it isn't misgendering me

I might feel different if I drove, but like, I'm nonbinary and I do not look cis -- the marker isn't making me more of a target // when cops have harassed me it's bc my appearance is already a flag

@yeenbean @hope @MxCraven @baronnarcveldt @InternetEh @Moss yes that's fair, i guess i don't really use my license for anything besides driving so it's not like i look at it that much

@RadiantEmber @Moss there's that, the fact it makes it
seem like it's the state validating yer identity (which is icky) and the fact that again, it makes it more easy for the state to track and control ya. plus, no documentation should ever be required. at all.

@Moss this!!! why make even more boxes, some of which will identify and damn trans people in the event of bigotry in govt, when you can just...not have that box?

So basically all documentation, right?

I'm that kind of trans woman :)

@Moss @Mottie it's always appealed to me to argue that yes, in fact, gender is a piece of biographical data that you really ought not be able to collect without extremely well thought out safeguards. like human rights wise. we've got massive entrenchment of gender in systems terms, and it's all wrong. it's dangerous.

@Moss Heath Fogg Davis has written a lot about this, I had to read some of his work for a class and I like it a lot.

Here's the very interesting thing I had to read for my class:
Here's a paper he wrote about bathrooms:

You can look up his name to find more.

@cadence @Moss

Thanks for those links Fogg Davi's paper on toilets covers a lot of ground also covered previously by Les Feinberg, who he hasn't cited and thus probably isn't aware of.

@celesteh @Moss I'm reading Feinberg's Trans Liberation at the moment actually.

@cadence @Moss

That's a good one. Also her one on transgender warriors is great.

I last looked at these in like 2003, but I vaguely recall reading something about medieval trans saints that she wrote, which I think about quite often.

@Moss I'm an allow me to choose any letter, number or special character nonbinary

@riotmuffin @Moss i like the spirit of this but like nobody actually looks at your ID except for cops and hoOoly fuck you don't want a cop to know you're trans

@Moss is there any documentation that does need gender?

@behold3r i'd figure if your doctor is helping you with something involving hormonal balance or genitalia, or if your therapist wants to support your identity through the work they do, one's gender is bound to come up as relevant. But that's extremely specific and confidential circumstances.

@behold3r technically no, as far as I can see. We Germans are known to bee over-bureaucratic, but neither our IDs, nor driving license contain gender info - which can be a problem by itself, because we literally don't have any ID document to confirm even our official gender marker (only the corrected birth certificate).


@Moss @gryphon rly wish more ppl realized how totally fucked up it is for institutions and states to collect and store this kind of info.

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