when you think about it, the idea that software should scale is actually really weird. "sure this garden is nice, but how nice can it be if it doesn't grow to cover the entire surface of the earth?"
(just thinking about https://runyourown.social — the "More on scale" passage in particular, and how it's weird that Darius has to present "the notion that software does not have to scale" as some kind of tendentious heresy instead of, like, a default so obvious that it goes unstated)
@aparrish this weirdness kinda feeds my "most software isn't engineered" take -- it seems to me that very little of the software industry designs with limits in mind
@aparrish The related idea that a modern corporation must always seek growth at all costs.
So do cancer cells.
@petethomas @aparrish It's an older flaw in capitalism than that, surely. Growth reports have been key quarterly earnings information to Wall Street for at least decades. It's an implicit assumption in centuries of stock trading that companies grow or they die, with little middle ground. It was a 1980s management book fad that codified that into an aphorism. It's a philosophy of life for vulture capital firms and certain types of "activist shareholders".
@aparrish Part of the design of Cwtch is that it davka DOESN'T scale well -- it becomes less efficient the more groups use a specific Cwtch server, and also it's very easy for groups to move servers, leading to loads naturally spreading.
(Servers are also -- assuming cryptography isn't broken -- untrusted with any data other than "some information is being exchanged, probably".)
@gaditb who's working on cwtch?
@nightpool https://openprivacy.ca as an organization --
Sarah Jamie Lewis, Erinn Atwater, Dan Ballard mostly as the individual people coding.
Code is on their Gogs instance: https://git.openprivacy.ca/cwtch.im/ui
(and other repos. Somewhere there thee's in implementation of OV-Net anonymous voting that they've used.)
@aparrish Excellent! Make it a banner of webring or something!!! 😘
"sure, one road and one car is nice, but if it can't be extended to give everyone a car and build enough roads so everyone can get around by car, we need something better"
"sure, it's nice that we can grow enough potatoes to feed one family, but if we can't grow enough potatoes to feed the whole village, we need something better"
@aparrish dueling gardening philosophies: kudzu vs rosebush
@phooky proposal to call twitter, fb, etc. "invasive social networks"
@aparrish love it!
would you then consider finger, Usenet, irc indigenous social networks?
@phooky haha I don't know if I'm ready to set up a whole for real taxonomy here, whoops
@aparrish You're losing me a little 'cause I kind of *do* want a garden the size of the planet?
@aparrish This is a great insight!
As a SW dev myself, I feel it's part of being competent for SW devs to understand how well their code scales. But the only actual requirement is that it scales "appropriately."
In some cases "appropriately" might not be very much at all.
Or even, if you're worried about centralization or and things, "appropriately" might actually mean "not too much."
@aparrish because usually your goal is to scale up. Like that's the goal.
@aparrish to extend the analogy: gardens make sense for feeding a few people, but to feed a large city they are very inefficient.
@aparrish I have been toying a lot with the metaphor that the internet is the most ambitious terraforming project undertaken by civilization so this comparison resonates
@aparrish software's less a garden and more a landfill. I don't think most people would object to a massive increase in flora around the world...
@aparrish this is one of the key reasons software has become so bad.
(the same diseased thinking infects other products, but it happens slower).
@aparrish All I can see in this thread is the different type of Factorio players. Just one more ore patch...
@aparrish how do I pin someone else's post to my feed
@aparrish i'm just going to print it out and tape it to my monitor
@aparrish idk I guess it depends what you're trying to do
@aparrish Maybe that phrase is thinking more like air and water. Or perhaps grain.
@aparrish Nevertheless, it's always bothered me. Similar to how things are deemed failures when the only have a few million users.