went to install python on ubuntu and was punked by my former self

@darius did you mean "how to fuck up my entire computer by installing python"

@ranjit no because if I did then random people on the internet would be mean to me

@darius if it helps (it doesn't) I blame ubuntu for this more than python, python is just really cavalier about "ok so we will RUN the BINARY from your PATH, the rest is up to you, godspeed"

@darius this question generalizes frighteningly well across what i suspect may now be the majority of programming environments and operating systems

@darius I don't know if you're looking, but in my case I settled on pyenv with the virtualenv plugin for now since I need to be able to run with specific versions of python.

https://github.com/pyenv/pyenv

(I hesitate suggesting anything because software development sometimes seems way too much all the time these days.)

@cstanhope oh yeah, stuff like this *works*, it just destroys my mental model of my operating system environment...

@darius Yeah, and then you combine it with other languages and runtimes you may be using. It's such a mess. :/

@darius

"did you mean python3? regardless, no results."

From the creators of "just please give me a self-contained binary that I can run, and no, I don't want any of its 50 dependencies".

No, installing ffmpeg doesn't mean I want 70 packages of desktop-related stuff for the off chance that I'll want to play something on my server.

@darius im working on a project for a client that was originally written in python (its a compiler that generates python) but python package management between linux and windows proved so &@^&* intractable it was just easier to learn rust and rewrite the whole thing. now we have a horrifyingly fast compiler. computers were a mistake but python is particularly awful.

@nasser @darius *looks at her piles and piles of ruby*

:blob_grimace:

at least python has pipx

And if we're talking compilers, nothing seems to beat PyPy

@meena @darius in rust i can build a self-contained windows executable on my linux machine and send it to my client, who can run it with no questions asked, no installing anything external, no juggling environments...

@darius @nasser @meena I’ve had the exact same experience with python, back when it happened I decided to rewrite in go. These days I’d definitely use rust tho (:

@darius I once found someone with my exact problem with installing an OS on a forum after hours of searching only to discover the question was posted by myself like 8 years earlier with no valid answer…

@darius I use pyenv for this. A really nice tool that manages python versions and virtual environments locally. All it needs is system dependencies to build python.

https://github.com/pyenv/pyenv

@avolkov @darius Consider this a second recommendation of pyenv! I would recommend using their automated installer though - I tried to do it manually and definitely fucked my shit up before I blew everything away and used the automated installer.

@reed @avolkov I have definitely run into major issues with pyenv, mostly because I don't understand anything about python -- I'm always installing python as dependency for something else. I imagine if I understood python better, then using pyenv would be easy for me like using nvm is for node. As it stands I've found pyenv weird and confusing because I lack necessary mental models

@darius @avolkov Yeah, exactly how it works is a bit of a mystery to me still - but I work at a python job so I needed to use it and eventually worked it out.

@darius It's the exact reverse for me :D Whenever i use node/npm, I run into fantastic issues and I have no idea what's going and it's frustrating, so I go back to Python where everything runs as I expect it.

So yes, I guess it's a matter of understand and familiarity with that particular ecosystem ;)

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