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Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

There's a collection of old roadside photos that I am turning into an automated bot to go here on fedi. There is definitely some racist imagery in there. I can do a keyword thing to catch when much of the racist imagery appears.

I am wondering: is it better to simply not show the racist imagery and present a sanitized version of history, or to put the racist imagery behind a CW so people can opt out but also it doesn't ignore the racism?

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lol never mind! 

Someone beat me to it, the bot exists here, though I can't tell if it filters stuff or CWs certain posts or what botsin.space/@oldroadside

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius is it already this bot? https://botsin.space/@oldroadside

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@alex aha, it is!

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius @alex and it could be improved! your CW idea is one way

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius if it's not (or even if it is!) i think disclaimer in bio + mark every image as sensitive is a-ok

lol never mind! 

@darius I don't recall ever seeing one CW'd.

lol never mind! 

@darius two cakes! (one with cws)

re: lol never mind! 

@darius no CW and iirc there was definitely racist stuff.. but I do not know if it's already a result of a fllter

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius Maybe it would be useful to curate two versions for comparison? A sanitized/whitewashed gallery and then reality?

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius No sanitization, please. That would be the same as a totalitarian news control. Information should be free, and for the spectator to make their own judgement. You could CW contents, when they seem to harsh/brutal/aggressive etc., however CW-ing racism per see seems to kill it's documentation.
My two € cents.

@jayrope @darius What I'm getting from this is that I shouldn't flush when I'm done in the bathroom because that would be totalitarian destruction of information that someone should document

@jayrope @darius I swear if you tell me that you have a poop shelf at home and you actually do this I'm going to die laughing

@petergriffinkinnie can't speak for him but here's the bathroom in my animal crossing house

@petergriffinkinnie @darius Ha, good points. Super Mario produced racism concerns before. Besides the idea seeming more or less brain poop, there is cultural stereotyping there (not racism), and obviously sthg. that nobody even aims to avoid, as it's more fun to lambast other people, cultures, habits as long as one didn't fully understand the 'other'.
Just like the poop in your bathroom.

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius i'm in favour of cw instead of omission

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius

Where are the photos from?

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@yetiinabox a Library of Congress collection, loc.gov/pictures/search/?q=mrg

There is a bot for it on fediverse already, that I didn't know about until posting this original post: @oldroadside

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius @oldroadside

When I read your original question, I was thinking not about the source of the materials, but the place depicted, in order to think about who you should consult and how you might handle the challenge of images with racist or otherwise oppressive content.

It did make me think: it's possible to imagine a "curation bot" that actually uses this problem to help folks learn. So instead of posting images directly, the project has a group of curators from communities whose oppression or abuse might be portrayed - so in the USAian case, Black Americans, Latinx, Asian Americans, Native Americans. The images go first to them, and they add content to the images - calling out dogwhistles, showing the origins of hate iconography, surfacing historical details of a place - and that bundle, image+curation, is what gets posted.

Of course I would argue that car culture itself is structural violence on a staggering scale, intersectional with racist and gendered structural violence, and that would also be interesting to curate in these images.

I mean, wow, the bomber gas station in Oregon. I remember that place.What could you say with that as your starting point?

But as you say, someone already got there.

re: Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius dont make a bot that posts racist stuff please dont do that

re: Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@geesehoward right, the other option is to just not make the bot at all. Anyway, someone else already did it, so.

re: Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius not at all comforting, i guess

re: Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius The answer to the question, "should I put more racist stuff on the internet?" should always be, "no."

Whether someone's already beaten you to the punch or not.

re: Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@Thunderbeans Then the question is: is a sanitized historical record preferable to just not making the bot in the first place?

My instinct at this point is: filter the content, monitor actively in case something gets by the filters, update filters as needed, include a note that there is some filtered content and the full archive is available at [link] if you want to dig around yourself.

re: Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius The [link] you propose is still you putting it online.

Those who're actually affected by racism online and have to work daily in suspending accounts posting it (because people keep making more!) don't benefit from your "historical record." Anyone who isn't directly affected but cares about those who are will also wind up suspending it. That leaves one audience: people who are into that shit.

re: Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius Your call. I'm out.

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius the collection is curated and maintained by museum professionals, meaning anyone who observes the contents in the intended setting is in an academic mindset and aware of and prepared for what they are exposing themselves to.

people following a bot on the internet are doing so for amusement and maybe mild educational benefit.

this should never have been a question, honestly

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@hammerhead I think it's a question worth asking. If I didn't ask questions like this (in advance of any potential harm!) I would never learn.

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius the adage that there’s no such thing as a stupid question is wrong

there are absolutely thoughts you should be able to sort out yourself and “should I put more racism on the internet?” is one of them.

the echo chamber of white nonsense likening not posting racism as an amusement to totalitarian control and then the one actual person of color happening upon you saying “wtf of course not” should tell you the company you keep is lacking

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@darius throwing my $0.02 in with the chorus saying it's a bad idea to make a bot based off an uncurated image set like that. regardless of it's cw'd or not, it's still just adding to the amount of racist imagery on the site. CW or not, there are plenty of actual nazis who scroll the federated timeline who'll love to see images of, idfk, cletus's blackface crab shack

i know someone has already done it so this is a moot point but the ethical decision in a case like this, if you've already decided that you really want the bot to exist, would be to curate the set yourself to remove the racist imagery and put a note in the bot's bio that you've done so.

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@RussellsBarbershopQuartet yeah, fair enough

Question about bot/archive ethics, racism mention 

@RussellsBarbershopQuartet I especially like the idea of just manually going through the whole image set and removing those images and then saying "hey I manually reviewed all images and removed all racist imagery to the best of my ability, if I left something in there it's my fault, please let me know and I'll remove it"

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