Idea: enabling "quote tweets" in Hometown but only for accounts that are self-identified as bots (aka the Service actor in activitypub). That way you're by definition not using the feature to dogpile on a person. There are so many times I want to surface some cool bot content but with a little commentary or context.
Note that this is just an idea, not a plan for Hometown. Curious to think what others think of it.
@darius wouldn't this require coordination across pinafore, tusky, etc? or could it be done fully server-side?
@darius "render on Hometown" meaning people who use the mastodon frontend as their client?
it seems like a neat feature but I'm not a big fan of the mastodon frontend personally so even if i were on hometown i wouldn't use it. it's a shame that kind of thing is so much work to implement in a way that everyone could use it.
@darius you can always boost and then reply with: "lb (...)" and removing the @
this way you can add some context to the toot and the people that see it will keep the context
@darius I run a few bots and I 100% get the desire for this!
I think a Twitter quote tweet (at least originally) is internally just a regular tweet with two newlines and a URL at the end(?). If Hometown did it this way, then it would render on non-HT servers as a regular web link, that's fine.
@darius I appreciate your thinking, but I suspect that if there are bad vibes the perps will perp them some other way, e.g. hostile responses.
And I like to have the ability to quote-tweet too!
There's a bunch to unpack here...
The idea of dogpiling being "inevitable" is a complex one. It does indeed happen, and it's true that quote post would make it more difficult to mute such conversations, but as you correctly point out, it's already possible to simply embed a URL and have the same essential effect.
At the same time, as we see on Twitter, quote tweets also have a great deal of value, value that's simply not possible to capture here right now.
And so what's the benefit of only allowing quotes for bots? The value is there either way.
Now, I'm sure people will say I'm wrong, that dogpiling is that much worse... but I get plenty of hate speech in replies and straight up mentions, so I don't see that quotes are really any different.
@emacsen Sure but that's not what I'm trying to discuss here. What I'm trying to do instead is find a specific subset of use cases that we can implement it for that allows for *some* value to be added without even risking the dogpiling at all.
As an aside, I think on Twitter people certainly felt that abuse got worse after QTs were officially implemented. I'm not saying that's necessarily true or false (I don't have a study to back it up) but the perception is there, and real.
I hear your idea, but either you believe dogpiling is a terrible problem like Eugen does, and you say "No quotes", or you think it's not a problem and you say "Go for it", but when it only works for bots, then the behavior is not very predictable. I can envision a lot of "Why does this work some of the time but not others?" and then in some sense, it encourages bots, which many on the Fediverse dislike too.
In other words, I think it's a bad idea to implement this bot-only thing.
What I'm saying is a little different.
The argument against quote-boosts is that they lead to dogpiling. That's essentially what Eugen means when he says "invecitably leads to toxicity" (a phrasing that deeply bugs me, but let's move on).
The question is, if we can quote something without notifying, is that dogpiling?
If I post a wikipedia article and comment on it, is that also dogpiling the wikipedia article?
I think the answer is no because there's no AP activity?
So then if I post a link to, or a photo of a post, but offer no notification, is that also dogpiling?
I am being a little purposefully provocative here, because a QB would have a button to do that action, but I do think the question remains to some extent.
I do genuinely sympathize with the anti-QB position, but I also see real utility too, and the protection is bypassed if a post is send as an image rather than a boost.
I guess it feels a bit weak as protection.
@email@example.com I have seen very few „manual“ quote boosts (screenshot of a post or link to post) in the Fediverse. I'm pretty sure it will get used more when there is a button for it.
I don't think it will lead to more dogpiling, because replying to a post and then boosting that serves the same purpose and is not more work.
But that's something the Hometown community has to decide, what i think doesn't / shouldn't matter. 😊
It would be nice if i could see quote boosts as quote renotes in Misskey though, even if it's just bots that are quoted.
"I'm not sure I understand what the bot is doing, other than making a preview?"
I can quote toot via copy-pasta and remove the original tooter
Is there something beyond that for QB?
Well, aside from unnecessary emojis :)
Trying to learn as I often talk w/ people about Fediverse, but really have only ever used Fediverse and G+
Dunno if this will skip Darius' and Serge's notifications after dropping them from the list, will ping them about it in another toot
^ just in case it actually skipped your notifications
@firstname.lastname@example.org You can see for yourself how a quote looks like in Misskey by opening https://very.tastytea.de/notes/90jcghgict in a browser.
It embeds the quoted post (you can click on its timestamp to get to it) and sends an ActivityPub-activity to the server of the quoted post.
If the server of the quoted post is Misskey, it generates a reply to the quoted post and a notification. Mastodon doesn't support it, so users will not see anything and don't get a notification. Not sure how other server implementations handle it.
not really a serious suggestion
@darius so, if someone has to check that box to make the account a bot
there could, in theory, be another box for “qt” and then users could opt in to quoted toots and then have a QT badge calling them cute
@darius I like the idea that local communities get a full picture of something, but that outsiders deliberately get a filtered view. That seems like a healthy tool to have around.
@darius I mute a lot of bots. If someone boosts a bot that I have need, that respects my mute. If someone replies to a bot, that respected my mute. If someone posts a link to a bot post “quote tweet” style, that does not.
Is there a reason to build a “quote tweet” style for bots rather than just use existing replies to bots? Still some fun ideas of how you could style Bot replies differently from non-Bot replies, but it doesn’t also serve to route around mutes/blocks.
Hometown is adapted from Mastodon, a decentralized social network with no ads, no corporate surveillance, and ethical design.